{"id":1471,"date":"2017-10-28T07:23:02","date_gmt":"2017-10-28T05:23:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/?p=1471"},"modified":"2017-10-28T07:23:02","modified_gmt":"2017-10-28T05:23:02","slug":"atheist-myth-one-has-ever-killed-in-the-name-of-atheism-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/atheist-myth-one-has-ever-killed-in-the-name-of-atheism-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Atheist Myth: \u201cNo One Has Ever Killed in the Name of Atheism\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Even if we were to ignore the obvious crimes against humanity that atheistic communists have committed, atheism would be condemned simply by examining the devastation of the French Revolution.<\/div>\n
Angelo Stagnaro<\/a><\/div>\n
\nSeveral points:
\n1. This is a silly, if not also a thoroughly common, argument.<\/strong> If the negative actions of any and all theists reflect badly upon all theists, all forms of religion and all religionists then it follows that the negative actions of any and all atheists reflect badly upon all atheists, all forms of irreligion and all irreligionists. This logical fallacy is called „Guilt by Association.”
\n2. Communism is definitely a religio<\/strong>n as the Catholic Church has claimed for more than a century. It’s an atheistic religion. It’s a religion created by atheists, celebrated by atheists and defended by atheists. It comes with its own prophets and prophecies, sacred items, soteriology, hierotopy, pseudo-spirituality, pseudo-morality, pilgrimages, temples, theophany, soteriology, cultic practices, sacred texts and exegetical commentary.
\n3. Even if we were to ignore<\/strong> the obvious crimes against humanity that atheists involved in the global communist movement in the past century have committed, we can condemn all atheists and atheism simply by examining the one million dead at the hands of „rational,” „enlightened” atheist French Revolutionaries. Historians call the\u00a0Vendean Martyrs in March 1793\u00a0the modern-era’s first genocide. The atheist French Revolutionary Army ordered the conscription of 300,000 citizens of Vend\u00e9e. Having already had all of their churches suppressed and their bishops slaughtered, this infuriated the populace which rose up in „The Catholic Army.” In response, the Revolutionary Army massacred 6,000 Vend\u00e9e prisoners, many of them women, children and the elderly, after the battle of Savenay. In addition, 3,000 Vend\u00e9e women were drowned at Pont-au-Baux. In addition, 5,000 Vend\u00e9e priests, elderly, women and children were tied in groups in barges and drowned in the Loire River at Nantes. By July, AD 1796, nearly 500,000 Vendean Catholics were killed. All of these theists were killed at the hands of atheists. Considering this was the first cry of „public” atheism\u2014as opposed to individuals who simply didn’t believe in God throughout Christian history\u2014atheists have yet to explain why „compassionate” and „rational” atheists’ hands are so murderously bloody.
\n4. If the above statement were true,<\/strong> it might make the atheist case unassailable. However, anyone who has read a newspaper at any time between the 17th and 21st centuries knows this to be untrue. This is one of the atheists’ fondest lies. I’m not sure that the person about to be executed by a Marxist or Maoist atheist is assuaged in the knowledge that his evil, merciless executioner isn’t killing him because<\/em> he’s an atheist but rather<\/em> because he believes in an atheist philosophy and only coincidently<\/em> doesn’t believe in God. Multiply this by all 152 million dead at the hands of atheists in the 20th and 21st century\u2014a carnage which has yet to abate\u2014makes the above claim perfectly worthless. In addition, we have more than sufficient proof that atheists killed in the name of atheism as in the case of the Soviet Union’s Society of the Militant Godless, Mao Zedong’s Red Guard, the Enlightenment’s Reign of Terror, Abimael Guzm\u00e1n’s Shining Path, atheist Napoleon’s wars and Plutarco Elias Calles democide of Mexican Catholics during the Cristero Wars.
\n5. Atheists who make<\/strong>nonsensical, ahistorical and misological claims<\/strong> such as this one, prove they’ve never truly examined their own community’s behavior under the microscope as they enjoy doing with us. Consider instead those who have died in the name of atheistic philosophies such as marxism, socialism, communism, maoism, Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, libertarianism, monopolistic capitalism, robber barronism, industrialization, secularism, jingoism, anarchism, social darwinism, eugenics, malthusianism, messianic scientism, nihilism, anti-humanist terrorism, individualism, narcissism, physicalism, materialism, consumerism, modernism, postmodernism, nietzscheism, Marquis de Sade’s sadism, (i.e.,<\/em> sadistic murders) moral relativism, hedonism, radical feminism, (i.e.,<\/em> abortions, infanticide, suicide, false claims of rape) radical environmentalism, (i.e.,<\/em> ecological terrorism) Anton LaVey’s satanism, (i.e.,<\/em> ritual murders) and the „Law of Attraction.” (i.e.,<\/em> the deaths, including suicides, caused by Peter Popoff, Sylvia Browne and other gurus”) All of these atheistic philosophies have resulted in the deaths of countless hundreds of millions of human beings. In comparison, the deaths caused by religion seem almost quaint and insignificant.
\n6. But even if we were to never mention any of the dark secret murders<\/strong> of the atheist community ever again, an important question remains begging to be begged: Why is it that no one has ever been helped anyone in the name of atheism? There has never been anyone who has ever given a crust of bread or a drop of water or a stitch of clothing to anyone in the name of atheism. (Richard Dawkins admits in his The God Delusion that it’s „easier to herd cats than to get atheists to cooperate each other.” This goes a long way in explaining why atheists refuse to cooperate with each other and form charitable concerns. Christians easily cooperate with each other otherwise hospitals and schools would never get built.)
\nIf this is incorrect, where are the army of atheists humanitarian traipsing about Africa and Asia giving hope to the poor and disadvantaged? Certainly none of the famous atheist polemicists have ever done so. Christopher Hitchens was asked on multiply occasions if he or other atheists who similarly had a poor opinion of St. Mother Teresa have actually gone to India\u00a0and rolled up their sleeves to bathe lepers. I’ve asked many atheists including P.Z. Myers, Patricia Churchland and Christopher Hitchens and none have responded in the positive. Madalyn O’Hair never mentioned having done so. Mao and Stalin were busy killing tens of millions of their compatriots by engineering famines in their respective countries so it’s hard to imagine they also helped poor people. When I volunteered at Mother Teresa’s street clinics in Calcutta, I never met an atheist doing the same work but I routinely met Catholics doing so.
\nRegardless of their obviously false claim that atheists have dutifully avoided murdering anyone, it’s a rather worthless commentary if a community has done nothing positive for humanity. Most humans have never killed anyone but this hardly makes those most people saints or Nobel Peace Prize\u00a0material. (Mother Teresa was both.)\u00a0It would be a sad epigraph on an atheist’s tombstone if it read, „He never helped a single individual, but at least he never killed anyone except as a result of his indifference and apathy.” Most prison convicts and related sociopaths have similarly not<\/em> killed anyone but the fact that they’re in prison proves they’ve disregarded the rights and needs of others. Only atheists put humanitarians in prison as in the case of the Soviet Union and Post-Revolutionary China, North Korea, Cuba, Cambodia and Vi\u00eat Nam.
\n7. Further, the fact that many atheists are glib<\/strong> or gratified at the horror of mass murders committed by their fellow atheists goes a long way in proving they are mere contrarians. One can’t glibly disregard the suffering of others while ignoring the fact that others (i.e.,<\/em>Catholics) are working towards alleviating suffering in the world and throughout it all, lying about their good works\u2014that’s requires a special kind of evil which is hopefully extremely rare in this world.
\nThese philosophies and the horrors they generated aside,<\/strong> fundamentalist atheists should rather worry about the kind of people they hope to attract to their community when they mock religion. Truly compassionate, generous, gentle, kind and forgiving people won’t be attracted to a group that mocks others. I’ve been a Catholic for a long time and I have never heard the word „atheism” or „atheist” ever mentioned in church. Having been an atheist prior to reverting to Catholicism, I can assure you that that<\/em> community is obsessed by the Church finding themselves incapable, or unwilling, of discussing anything other than the most recent reason for hating us. They never talk about the wonders and glories of atheism or the joy that it engenders in their hearts. They never raise virtuous atheists as models for themselves and their children. They never organize themselves to help the unfortunate. It’s because they can’t and simply don’t want to.
\nFrankly, after a couple of years, I simply couldn’t take it anymore. I left atheism behind because it was snarky, sniping and moribund reveling in its bitterness and denial. It’s amazing anyone psychologically and spiritually survives the wholesale rejection of hope, logic and reality as they cherry pick data to uphold their opinions. Or, maybe, it’s because God has a special place in His heart for atheists. As G.K. Chesterton points out, God even sustains atheists in their disbelief.
\nhttp:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/astagnaro\/atheist-myth-no-one-has-ever-killed-in-the-name-of-atheism\n<\/div>\n
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Comments<\/strong><\/h4>\n
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Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 29, 2016 10:55 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nBuck up, Buttercup. If there are any athiets charities, apparently even you can\u2019t find them. If you could, you\u2019d stop the insults and red herrings and simply post their website links. Your petulance means nothing compared to actual physical reality. Why are you shy about proving your claims? Is it because even you realize you\u2019ve been caught on a lie? Put down the bong and pick up a book.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 29, 2016 10:48 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi S Mason,
\nHere\u2019s another of your increasingly obvious lies. You initially said that more than 50% of your colleagues at your volunteering situation were atheists. Now you say there were NO devoutly religious Christians there. Holy Mackerel! You\u2019re insisting that the 4% of Americans who are atheists have descended upon that place and ALL are volunteering there? If that was true, they\u2019d be NO WHERE ELSE. Like all atheists, you\u2019d say literally anything to \u201cfake\u201d win an argument. Sorry! You lose. Logic, mathematics and empirical reality say you\u2019re wrong.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 29, 2016 10:41 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi S Mason,
\nLike all atheists, you\u2019re an accomplished liar. You\u2019re not very good at it but you sure do poke along. You accused me of \u201cshifting goalposts\u201d but I\u2019ve been supremely consistent in this discussion. I even clearly repeated my wager to you in my last posting. That\u2019s EIGHT times I\u2019ve reiterated myself and EIGHT times you\u2019ve pretended I\u2019ve somehow changed my mind. Just send the name of this nonexistent, generous athiet and I\u2019ll send $500 to his organization. You can keep lying but I\u2019m only going to respond with my wager which you have dutifully ignored while pretending I\u2019m somehow the enemy. Your lies are the enemy you should be concerned with. When you lie and I point out your lies, I\u2019m not insulting you. I\u2019m only defending the truth. Atheists can never understand this.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 29, 2016 10:34 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nI\u2019m sure you think of yourself as educated, rational and logical.\u00a0 That\u2019s part of the problem.
\nYou\u2019ve also pretended to be a scientist and historian but you\u2019re obviously neither. You pretended to be an accomplished logican amd that\u2019s just risiable. The moment I question your fake credentials and your overinflated sense of self, you crumble and spew insults and even more nonsense.
\nYou really need to read books rather than pretending to have done so as atheists often pretend to.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Monday, Nov, 28, 2016 7:32 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nKevin, I\u2019m sure you don\u2019t think of yourself as prejudiced.\u00a0 That\u2019s part of the problem.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Monday, Nov, 28, 2016 6:06 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\n\u201cYou\u2019re quite skilled at diverting from the truth\u2014-you must have been an atheist for many years. \u201c
\nYour insults are just so horrible.\u00a0 I really wonder what happens when you go to confession or take communion?\u00a0 What is in your heart?
\n\u201cIf you show me how I\u2019ve changed the goalposts in my comments with date and time references,\u201d
\nSo lets get this straight: I call you on a straight fabricated misrepresentation and ask you for a date and time stamp.\u00a0 And you respond by asking me for a date and time stamp, and accuse me of being a liar?\u00a0 Again.\u00a0 For real?
\n\u201cI\u2019ll give an additional $500 to the imaginary atheist-led and inspired African charity which you\u2019ve been lying about thus far.\u201d
\nI think we all know there\u2019s no $500, once or twice.\u00a0 Given I\u2019ve provided the link to EducAid\u2019s website, it\u2019s a bit weird you keep backing into that corner.
\nAnd for accuracy: I didn\u2019t say it was atheist led or inspired – you do love just making it up eh? – I said one of the founders is atheist, which you could have verified had you actually been interested in about 2 minutes.\u00a0 And 2 minutes later you could have been transferring that $500.\u00a0 But no.\u00a0 You\u2019re not interested in the here truth at all: you\u2019re just angry and wildly abusive.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Kevin Rahe on Monday, Nov, 28, 2016 11:14 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBrian Westley said,<\/p>\n

Kevin, you\u2019ve shown your prejudice against atheists in this forum.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

No, I haven\u2019t. You\u2019ve merely chosen to interpret my comments that way so as to leave me with no means of escape.\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 28, 2016 12:22 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nS Mason,
\nReread the box above where we post:
\n\u201cWe encourage a lively and HONEST discussion of our content.\u201d
\nFeel free to start telling the truth. You\u2019ve been caught on at least a dozen lies thus far. Just send the name of this imaginary charitable atheist who runs a charity in Africa. That way, you\u2019ll win this exchange and the kids will win $500. Why do you hate poor kids so much that you refuse to give them this gift which I openly and honestly offer. I\u2019ll send you the receipt of my donation after you send the editor the imaginary atheist\u2019s contact information.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 28, 2016 12:19 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nS Mason,
\nYou\u2019re quite skilled at diverting from the truth\u2014-you must have been an atheist for many years. If you show me how I\u2019ve changed the goalposts in my comments with date and time references, I\u2019ll give an additional $500 to the imaginary atheist-led and inspired African charity which you\u2019ve been lying about thus far.
\nI\u2019ve never changed my mind about the parameters of our wager. I\u2019ll state it again very simply for everyone\u2019s benefit herein: If you tell me the name of the imaginary, non-existence atheist who created\/leads an African-based charity, I\u2019ll donate $500 to it. I\u2019ve never changed the \u201cgoals\u201d in this challenge but I see you enjoy misdirecting other readers into thinking you\u2019re the greatly put upon party here. If you don\u2019t wish to post your friend\u2019s name here, send the contact information to the editor of this newspaper. The webmaster\u2019s address is webmaster@ncregister.com.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Ray Mantua on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 5:43 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi S Mason,
\nYou\u2019re lying about most of your co-volunteers at IRC being atheists. This can be proven statistically. Only 4% of Americans are atheists. Statistically, atheists rarely volunteer time, resources or money in comparison to Christians, even on a per capita basis. For you to be in a situation where \u201cmost\u201d (greater than 50%) of fellow volunteers are atheist would be phenomenally unlikely. That would nean, statistically, that there were a great number of OTHER volunteer situations that were bereft of any and all atheists since they were all congregating with you at IRC. You\u2019ve been caught on yet another lie.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Brian Westley on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 4:34 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay, red herrings are a dishonest debating technique, and I see you\u2019re still too hilariously incompetent to find atheist charities.
\nKevin, you\u2019ve shown your prejudice against atheists in this forum.\u00a0 \u201cSome of my best friends are X\u201d is the typical dodge.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 3:01 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\n\u201cWell I\u2019m not naming a friend on a public forum.\u201d
\n\u201cAh! So were you lying before when you wrote: 1) You would do exactly that or 2) You specifically said you already had done so or 3) Now that you\u2019ve changed your mind saying you never have or ever will?\u201d
\nCould you quote the date and timestamp where I said I\u2019d name my atheist friend, who is the founder of a charity?
\nIf not, do you want to reflect on your behaviour at all?
\n\u201cI wonder if you\u2019re even cognizant of the lying nonsense coming out of you. \u201c
\nI\u2019m not.\u00a0 Honesty and integrity are important to me – as they are to my atheists friends in fact.
\n\u201cYour lies are no match for the truth no matter how accomplished you are at that particular art.\u201d
\nHmmm\u2026\u00a0 More Ray Mantua irony.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 2:41 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\nThis is the text above the box we post into
\n\u201cWe encourage a lively and honest discussion of our content. We ask that charity guide your words. \u201c
\nDo you want to reflect on that before accusing anyone else of lying or being a hypocrite?\u00a0 Before just ignoring the posts they have made?\u00a0 Before accusing others of vitriol and anger, in angry and vitriloic posts?\u00a0 Just saying\u2026\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by s mason on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 2:16 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\n\u201cWe\u2019re still waiting on your proof of supposedly charitable atheists. \u201c
\nBut I\u2019ve never said Id give proof: I have tried though, but noting the way you move the goal posts and just ignore the posts that are inconvenient to you, I asked what would count as evidence for you.
\nDon\u2019t both answering though: I find your approach to discussion to be fairly distressing. The constant abuse, the unfounded accusations, the misrepresentation (where did I ever offer to name my friend who is atheist, and founder of EducAid Sierra Leone) for eg – and yet you accuse me constantly of lying and hypocrisy.
\nI wonder what you think you will achieve by this behaviour?
\n\u201cDo you also have proof of Bigfoot and UFOs? You\u2019d have better luck with the later rather than the former.\u201d
\nIt\u2019s a surreal position you are trying to hold on to.\u00a0 Despite it being explained to you that atheism isn\u2019t like religion in that mostly it doesn\u2019t organise and therefore isn\u2019t capable of setting up charities, individual atheists are all over the charity world.\u00a0 I\u2019ve worked with stacks of them.\u00a0 I used to work for the IRC (based on 42nd and Lex which is definitely not a religious NGO by the way) and most of my colleagues were atheists.\u00a0 Likewise in the Red Cross, MSF, Save, etc.\u00a0 In fact, the religious colleagues were in a minority and tended to work with the religious NGOs.
\nBut why am I bothering?\u00a0 You just believe what you want to believe and abuse any you feel like.\u00a0 It\u2019s been a surreal interaction.
\n\u201cI know you won\u2019t offer any proof in your next posting either\u201d
\nWell – as there is no proof you\u2019d accept, I suppose this is accurate.
\n\u201cI\u2019ve dealt with fundamentalist atheists before.\u201d
\nWere you quite as profoundly unpleasant with them as well? I\u2019d point out: you have absolutely no idea what my faith is – though I\u2019ve told you explicitly that I am Catholic.\u00a0 You\u2019re assertion that I\u2019m lying doesn\u2019t do you much credit.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by Kevin Rahe on Sunday, Nov, 27, 2016 9:52 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBrian Westley said,<\/p>\n

So, even given evidence of atheist charities, you have to try and negate even that much, using nothing more than your personal prejudice against atheists.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I have no personal prejudice against atheists<\/em>. In fact, I\u2019d be happy to count folks like Arian Foster<\/a> among my friends. Anyone who is willing to think and is fair-minded starts from a very good place in my book.
\nNow atheism<\/em> is perhaps a different story. I may well have a prejudice against that, though I strive to give it a chance to prove itself whenever I have the opportunity. But unlike many others (religious and non-religious alike) I don\u2019t lock what I think about a person<\/em>to their beliefs, non-beliefs, proclivities, tastes, attractions or fears, even if they want me to.<\/p>\n

Why is it important to you to feel superior?<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I have no such need. I am merely acknowledging reality. For instance, atheists will classify United Way as a secular charity. Yet in my area it grants money to many overtly religious charities (for specific purposes other than propagating their faith of course) as well as to other organizations that aren\u2019t religious in name but would be very surprising to find are motivated by only a non-religious ideology given the religiosity of the region.\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Posted by Ray Mantua on Saturday, Nov, 26, 2016 11:43 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi S Mason,
\nWe\u2019re still waiting on your proof of supposedly charitable atheists. Do you also have proof of Bigfoot and UFOs? You\u2019d have better luck with the later rather than the former.
\nI know you won\u2019t offer any proof in your next posting either. I\u2019ve dealt with fundamentalist atheists before.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Saturday, Nov, 26, 2016 11:40 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nI find it humorous that you claim to be rational but refuse to even read the article Stagnaro wrote. You refuse to answer my direct questions. Your posts are full of hatred, ignorance, lies and empty boasts but you\u2019ve convinced yourself of your moral and intellectual superiority. You even pretended to be a scientist with \u201cproof\u201d God doesn\u2019t exist. You also claimed to know billions of atheist charities but refuse to show proof. But most humorously, you refuse to read my posts and instead have somehow \u201cmagically\u201d umderstood them. When will we see the end of your rampant irrationalisms?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Saturday, Nov, 26, 2016 11:33 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nYou believe in luck but not God? Typical confused atheist. I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve convinced yourself that you are \u201crational\u201d even though you lied about having studied science, logic and history. G.K. Chesterton often said, \u201cWhen a man refuses to believe in God, he doesn\u2019t believe in nothing but rather, he believes anything.\u201d
\nWorse than believing in luck, you\u2019ve convinced yourself that you\u2019re rational and logical even though you\u2019ve refused to be either. You\u2019ve convinced yourself you\u2019re educated though you lie about having studied the subjects in which you claimed to be an expert. You claim to be supremely charitable yet you act uncharitably. You live a delusion. Embrace Christ. Embrace Logic and Reason Itself.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 4:47 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nWhen you act foolishly, angrily, petulantly and ignorantly, you set an excellent example for atheists who wish to leave your ilk and come join the Catholic Church. That\u2019s why I left. Many thanks for your efforts.
\nSo far, you\u2019ve proven you know nothing about science or logic or history. You offer nothing but insults and are devoid of facts. You\u2019re clinging tightly to the myth of \u201catheist charities\u201d but you won\u2019t show a single link to their websites. Are there many? Send 50 links. Of course, you won\u2019t find that many. How about 10? No takers? You can keep your lies, insults and self over-inflation but you\u2019ll need to stand back as Catholics once again take on the heavy work of actually assisting the poor.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 4:06 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay, your red herring arguments are irrelevant and not worth reading, though I am amused by how your continued vitrolic remarks about atheists makes you such a good representative of Catholicism, and with any luck will dissuade some readers from becoming Catholic.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 4:03 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201cI would wager that a great many people involved in \u201csecular\u201d charities or organizations that such charities provide grants to are indeed motivated by their faith in God.\u201d
\nSo, even given evidence of atheist charities, you have to try and negate even that much, using nothing more than your personal prejudice against atheists.
\nWhy is it important to you to feel superior?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 2:26 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear Brian Westley, S Mason and all other atheist trolls:
\nRead this article (I know none of you will) and attempt at refuting it if you\u2019ve convinced yourselves the Catholic Church is anti-science:
\nhttp:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/astagnaro\/the-catholic-mass-in-the-color-of-your-choice\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 1:37 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear S Mason:
\n\u201cWell I\u2019m not naming a friend on a public forum.\u201d
\nAh! So were you lying before when you wrote: 1) You would do exactly that or 2) You specifically said you already had done so or 3) Now that you\u2019ve changed your mind saying you never have or ever will?
\nI wonder if you\u2019re even cognizant of the lying nonsense coming out of you. Your lies are no match for the truth no matter how accomplished you are at that particular art.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 25, 2016 10:02 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nQuestions are only very rarely fallacious and in Kevin Rahe\u2019s case, absolutely not. You must stop pretending you\u2019re learned in the rules of logic. The fact that you intentionally misapplied that designation to Kevin\u2019s question means you have made a logical error called \u201cArgumentum ad lapidem.\u201d Before you speak\/write, you must think and before you think, you must read. Atheists must stop believing that their ideas are golden and beyond criticism and that they excused from reading books.
\nAnd as to your own non sequitor, where are these atheist soup kitchens, charitable hospitals, food pantries, missions, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc. built in the name of atheism that you \u201cfeel\u201d exist. Just send us the links and have this over and done with. At best, you\u2019re only arguing from a perspective of wishful thinking if you believe the landscape is dotted with atheist charities. I\u2019ve only found two mentions of them on the Web and I have no way of verifying their existence. There are around 600 Catholic hospitals in the US alone along with 3000 pregnancy centers. This is only the barest fraction of Catholic philanthropy. There are no poor people in the world who say to themselves, \u201cWe\u2019re hungry and we need medicine for our children! Let us alight to the atheists because of their wonderful philanthropic reputation!\u201d However, the poor do that all the time with Catholics.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kevin Rahe on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 12:59 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBrian Westley said,<\/p>\n

And I\u2019m not surprised that the reason YOU don\u2019t see \u201canyone starting soup kitchens, charitable hospitals, food pantries, missions, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc. in the name of atheism\u201d\u2014you simply haven\u2019t looked for atheist charities.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I stand corrected. There is a charity that was started to help the homeless called Austin Atheists Helping the Homeless. However, it has since been renamed Austin Humanists at Work and \u201c…has grown to include people from all walks of life. Volunteers include people who are atheists, agnostic, secular, freethinkers and even those who are theists.<\/em>\u201d There is also Atheist Centre in India, which apparently continues to operate under that name. However, it appears that the impetus behind the group was not so much a disbelief in God as it was the eradication of practices associated with some primitive religions that divided and unjustly affected a significant portion of the population, such as the caste system. In fact, Christianity could be as effective an antidote to such practices as atheism is.
\nThere are others that aren\u2019t expressly atheist but merely make the point that they aren\u2019t religious or are secular in nature. However, as I pointed out earlier, \u201csecular\u201d is just the expression of a thing rather than the motivation behind it, which is necessarily something else. I would wager that a great many people involved in \u201csecular\u201d charities or organizations that such charities provide grants to are indeed motivated by their faith in God. Even the reason atheists and agnostics will often cite for being involved in charitable works – treating others they way they would like to be treated – is not a sentiment peculiar to atheism and agnosticism.
\nSome have argued here that atheism is not like a religion. It is puzzling, then, why others defending atheism would insist that it can motivate charitable works in some just like faith in God motivates charitable works in (at least some, but still not enough) religious folks.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
Posted by s mason on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 4:08 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 11:28 PM (EST):
\n\u201cWe\u2019re all still waiting on that name of the mysterious, non-existent charitable atheist you keeping lying about. \u201c
\nWell I\u2019m not naming a friend on a public forum (particularly to satisfy an appallingly rude and insulting poster), but I sent you the link to the website where he is clearly named and it\u2019s set out.\u00a0 I think fairly clearly that you have absolutely no interest in knowledge in this matter or any others relating to non-belief.\u00a0 You could follow the link, have a look at the Charity and the founders and you\u2019d see that every word I wrote is entirely accurate.\u00a0 And yet publicly you\u2019ve called me a liar repeatedly.\u00a0 No shame at all?\u00a0 I think you owe EducAid $500.\u00a0 And I think you owe me an apology.\u00a0 A pretty profuse one.\u00a0 Not holding my breath.\u00a0 Hey ho.
\n\u201cI\u2019ve never met a polite atheist let alone a rational AND generous one.\u201d
\nIt\u2019s funny: I\u2019m struggling to believe you\u2019ve ever looked. Its probably hard to get through those constant repetition of the ironic accusation that decent people are liars and hypocrites.\u00a0 Do you know what\u2019s really funny: like so many angry Christians (why do we have so many in our ranks?) you clearly don;t actually believe half of our creed!\u00a0 You don\u2019t believe you will be judged for your words or actions.\u00a0 You couldn\u2019t possibly behave the way you do unless you have serious mental health issues perhaps.
\n\u201cBut, if you\u2019ve found one, it\u2019s as unlikely as bumping into Bigfoot riding a UFO. Produce the name or stop posting here. You\u2019re a hypocrite and a liar.\u201d
\nHmm.\u00a0 More of those unfounded insults.\u00a0 You do like to dig a very big hole\u2026\u00a0 There are loads of very decent atheists all over the place.\u00a0 To suggest there aren\u2019t really does tell us about you not them.
\n\u201cFirst law on holes: when you\u2019re in one, stop digging\u201d Dennis Healey\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 2:04 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nYou can stop casting your red herrings now. If you know any atheist soup kitchens, charitable hospitals, food pantries, missions, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc., please don\u2019t keep us in suspense. You\u2019re pretending they exist whereas Catholics don\u2019t need to pretend. We actually operate them. If you can\u2019t find any, that means one or two possibilities 1) They don\u2019t exist or 2) atheists have cleverly hidden them and have effectively made them useless. It\u2019s useless to have a charitable organization that doesn\u2019t act charitably. You can pretend they exist but if you can\u2019t point them out, why pretend atheists are charitable?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 1:06 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201cCan you offer any explanation for why an atheist would pretend that atoms are magical and that they can produce themselves and, in fact, the entire universe?\u201d
\nThat would be your mangled misunderstanding of physics.
\n\u201cScience says they can\u2019t.\u201d
\nYou don\u2019t appear to be familiar with science.\u00a0 Do you even know about, say, particle-antiparticle pair production, or the hypothesis that the universe is a quantum fluctuation?
\nBut did you have a point?\u00a0 Or are you just creating a parade of red herrings to distract from your vile behavior towards atheists?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 12:28 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Mason,
\nWe\u2019re all still waiting on that name of the mysterious, non-existent charitable atheist you keeping lying about. I\u2019ve never met a polite atheist let alone a rational AND generous one. But, if you\u2019ve found one, it\u2019s as unlikely as bumping into Bigfoot riding a UFO. Produce the name or stop posting here. You\u2019re a hypocrite and a liar.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 12:26 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nCan you offer any explanation for why an atheist would pretend that atoms are magical and that they can produce themselves and, in fact, the entire universe? Science says they can\u2019t. Why would atheists believe the universe started itself?
\nAnd, considering your penchant for very bad logic and your childish petulance at being shown you\u2019re wrong, I dare tell you now to not use the uneducated atheist\u2019s favorite logical fallacy, \u201cArgumentum ad ignorantiam.\u201d As you\u2019re ever going to look it up and, instead, pretend you know everything about logic, I\u2019ll give you as simple an explanation as possible herein. Hopefully you\u2019ll understand it. Just because you don\u2019t have proof of something, doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s not true. Thus, I\u2019m asking you to give an intelligent, sane, educated, rational answer to my question as stated above.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Thursday, Nov, 24, 2016 12:07 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nKevin Rahe, your question is a non-sequitur.\u00a0 And I\u2019m not surprised that the reason YOU don\u2019t see \u201canyone starting soup kitchens, charitable hospitals, food pantries, missions, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc. in the name of atheism\u201d\u2014you simply haven\u2019t looked for atheist charities.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kevin Rahe on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 4:11 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBrian Westley said,<\/p>\n

\u201dI\u2019m not saying that atheists cannot feel such love, but if they do, it means they have found God.\u201d
\nHow ridiculous.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Can you offer any other explanation for an atheist finding another human being to have inherent importance beyond their physical existence?\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 1:18 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Dave,
\nI\u2019m glad you corrected yourself. I want to congratulate you on your miraculous ephiphanic realization! Atheists don\u2019t have the moral high ground when they insult theists (ie, Catholics\u2026because you people never attack Jews and moslems.) When atheists let their emotions get the best of them, you\u2019re being irrational and that also undermines your arguments, especially when you\u2019re claiming others are being irrational. Furthermore, when you tell theists (ie, Catholics\u2026because you people never attack Jews and moslems) they\u2019re ignorant and should crack open a book while claiming that there\u2019s some position held by theists that differs from yours, it reveals your lack of historical knowledge, the scientific method, empirical facts and a working knowledge of the rules of logic. Again, I wish to congratulate you because, other than atheists who convert to Catholicism, you are the first non-theist to come to a dim, rudimentary understanding of parity and the Golden Rule. This sounds like sarcasm but it\u2019s sadly the truth. You can\u2019t complain about people treating you badly if you and your kind do exactly the same thing to theists (ie, Catholics\u2026because you people never attack Jews and moslems)\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Dave on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 9:53 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nOops, sorry, I just realized I directed my last comment to Brian when it was supposed to be for Ray Mantua. So sorry for the confusion!\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 3:36 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi S Mason,
\nYou asked if I\u2019m able to post without being wildly insulting. Can you? It\u2019s taken five of my promptings asking you to prove this ridiculous claim of yours about this mystical, magical, invisible generous atheist of whom you write and you\u2019ve yet to give us his name. Why be shy? Why not prove what you have to say? I\u2019ve never met a generous atheist but I\u2019d like to finally meet one. You pretend to be Catholic but you write with an oily, atheistic cant. Very slow, measured and calculating like you have much to hide. Show us your cancelled checks along with the name of this mysterious, non-existent atheist of whom you brag. Send them to the editor of this newspaper to prove you are a good judge of generosity.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 23, 2016 3:29 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian,
\nYou\u2019re wrong gain or, should I rather say, you\u2019re still wrong. You\u2019re falsely making a distinction between \u201cmaking an argument\u201d and \u201cspouting emotionalist blather.\u201d Whatever you did, you were illogical. If an ignorant person screams and yells in the street about some paranoid conspiracy theory, would he be justified in saying that he can\u2019t be judged as \u201cirrational\u201d because he \u201cwasn\u2019t posing an argument?\u201d That\u2019s ridiculous.
\nIf you hope to be rational one day, you can start right now by being rational in your every day life and stop making excuses for your bad thinking.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 10:43 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Mason,
\nWe\u2019re all still waiting on that name of the mysterious, non-existent charitable atheist. Produce the name or stop posting here. You\u2019re a hypocrite and a liar.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 8:42 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay Mantua, you\u2019re still making the mistake that I was trying to present an argument\u2014I wasn\u2019t.
\nI also notice that you didn\u2019t criticize Kevin Rahe for not offering support for HIS statement that I replied to.\u00a0 You aren\u2019t interested in logical fallacies at all.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 4:27 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\n\u201cYour ignorance is showing. Robespierre was a virulent atheist as were many of the Enlightenment \u201cthinkers.\u201d They specifically targeted poor Catholic peasants to kill in the Vendee Massacre\u2026the modern era\u2019s first genocide.
\nEnlightenment thinkers\u201d destroyed Catholic cathedrals and protestant churches to recreate them as \u201cTemples to Reason.\u201d
\nPut down the bong and pick up a book. Put aside your wild hormone-infused emotions and study logic.\u201d
\nAre you able to post without being wildly insulting?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 4:26 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\n\u201cNo. What I wrote was neither Christian nor adultlike. I was doing an impersonation of a fundamentalist atheist. I\u2019m surprised you didn\u2019t recognize it as I\u2019m told I\u2019m spot on.\u201d
\nYou\u2019re deliberately being unpleasant about atheists?\u00a0 And think that\u2019s fine? You may take it from me you\u2019re nothing like the atheists I know.
\n\u201cYou keep avoiding offering proof of your crazy claims. Tell us the name of this imaginary atheist and his supposed African charity and I\u2019ll donate $500 to them.\u201d
\nWell – lets see.\u00a0 Look up educaid.org.uk – EducAid Sierra Leone – and their bank details are on their web site.\u00a0 I\u2019ll let them know to expect the donation.\u00a0 I wonder if it will come?\u00a0 If you now don\u2019t donate, but move the goalposts again\u2026will you look at yourself?
\n\u201cYou will, of course, not provide this information thus depriving these mythical children of some much needed funds. \u201c
\nHmmm – lets see shall we.
\n\u201cInstead, you\u2019ll try to paint me as if I\u2019ve somehow done something wrong by holdimg a mirror up to atheists for their historically unprecedented evil. Don\u2019t worry\u2026I can smell am atheist even over the Internet.\u201d
\nI genuinely wonder if you might be sick?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Dave on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 4:24 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBrian Westley: You do realize you can\u2019t simultaneously be insulting and claim the moral high ground, right? Furthermore, letting your emotions get the best of you is rather irrational, so that also undermines your arguments, especially when you\u2019re claiming others are being irrational. Furthermore, when you tell people they\u2019re ignorant and should crack open a book while claiming that there\u2019s some position held by atheists or scientists that \u201catoms are magical\u2026\u201d also reveals your lack of command of the facts, unless of course that was part of a straw man argument, but then with your exhibited command of logical fallacies that couldn\u2019t be the case, could it? Anyhoo, instead of reading comments, you probably should be reading your bible, like maybe Matthew 5:16. James 1:19 might be good to review before you consider responding to them, too. \ud83d\ude42\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 2:16 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley. No. You\u2019re wrong once again. You\u2019re being illogical and therefore irrational when you make a logical error. You\u2019re so far gone that you can\u2019t even take instruction on thinking clearly whether you admit it or not. The fallacious error you made BEFORE is called \u201cArgumentum ad lapidem.\u201d It\u2019s a common athiest mistake. And the fact that you refuse to recognize it means you are a misologist. (I\u2019ll presume you\u2019re ALSO not going to look up the word either.) You\u2019re not allowed to pretend to be rational if you insist on being illogical. Further, calling me \u201cravenously bigoted\u201d is yet another fallacious mistake on your part (common for atheists.) It\u2019s called \u201cArgumentum ad hominen.\u201d You offer insults instead of an intellgent, sane and rational response. The fact that you \u201cdon\u2019t care\u201d is not only a lie but it\u2019s yet ANOTHER fallacious error called \u201cArgumentum no lo contendre.\u201d No one cares if you don\u2019t care. You simply said that so as to bow out of an argument you have obviously lost. I\u2019ve pointed out THREE logical errors of yours and you only wrote a few lines. Even a crazy person can recognize his errors when they are pointed out. Why can\u2019t you accept the fact that you\u2019ve outed yourself as an atheist who is completely ignorant of logic? Respond back and I\u2019ll point out your next error as well. Your ingnorace is no match for knowledge. Your \u201cfeelings\u201d are no match for logic.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Tuesday, Nov, 22, 2016 1:59 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Mason,
\nNo. What I wrote was neither Christian nor adultlike. I was doing an impersonation of a fundamentalist atheist. I\u2019m surprised you didn\u2019t recognize it as I\u2019m told I\u2019m spot on.
\nYou keep avoiding offering proof of your crazy claims. Tell us the name of this imaginary atheist and his supposed African charity and I\u2019ll donate $500 to them.
\nYou will, of course, not provide this information thus depriving these mythical children of some much needed funds. Instead, you\u2019ll try to paint me as if I\u2019ve somehow done something wrong by holdimg a mirror up to atheists for their historically unprecedented evil. Don\u2019t worry\u2026I can smell am atheist even over the Internet.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 2:10 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Elvenpath,
\nYour ignorance is showing. Robespierre was a virulent atheist as were many of the Enlightenment \u201cthinkers.\u201d They specifically targeted poor Catholic peasants to kill in the Vendee Massacre\u2026the modern era\u2019s first genocide.
\nEnlightenment thinkers\u201d destroyed Catholic cathedrals and protestant churches to recreate them as \u201cTemples to Reason.\u201d
\nPut down the bong and pick up a book. Put aside your wild hormone-infused emotions and study logic.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 1:36 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Brian Westley,
\nWhen you write comments like \u201cHow ridiculous\u201d to someone\u2019s posting without explaining yourself, you commit the fallacious logical error known as \u201cArgumentum ad lapidem.\u201d I understand your anger, frustration and abject ignorance as atheists only pretend to read books on logic but never actually do. I\u2019ve literally placed logic (a subject I teach) books in their hands only for them to drop them on the ground. This is a typical anti-intellectual response from atheist narcissists who don\u2019t want to be found out in their lies about not having read books. But, as no gives a fig about your emotions during a rational argument, which only recognizes the rules of logic, atheists will always lose. They will always whine. They will always hurl invective ignoring facts, logic, science and history because your selfish emotions are precious to you. Unfortunately, the feelings of other people are never precious to you. That\u2019s why you and other fundamental atheists are lacking in compassion. Why are you lacking in compassion, you ask? Because if you were brimming with it, you misanthropes would build a couple of hospitals and schools for poor kids.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 1:26 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Chris Weiss,
\nI want to thank you for a clear-headed, intelligent posting. You are incorrect but I appreciate you being even-handed and expressing your opinion without the vitriol and misology of other posters.
\nCommunism is definitely a political philosophy but the same can be said of Christianity. That is, Christianity has a political function or aspect also. If atheist communists merely wanted to help people in dire need, they would simply have given their money to the Church which has a 2000 year old tradition of helping the poor and representing their needs to their employees. In fact, St John \u201cDon\u201d Bosco created the first labor unions as a result of the inequalities and injustices from Industrialization.
\nA clearer understanding of communism which helps to explain their moral inconsistencies is that atheists, like Marx and Engel, wanted to emulate the good work done by the Church and thus created a secular version of the Church\u2019s structure and organization. Perhaps they did so because they wanted to be better represented in politics. Perhaps they simply hated the Church. The result is communism and the horrors that have resulted from it being unleashed upon an unsuspecting world.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kevin Rahe on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 12:14 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay Mantua, you are correct that many people – including Christians as well as atheists\/agnostics – erroneously consider \u201csecular\u201d to mean \u201catheist.\u201d \u201cSecular\u201d refers much more to the expression<\/em> of a thing than the impetus behind it. For instance, one could reasonably argue that the majority of our laws were informed by a Judeo\/Christian moral code. But all of those laws are written<\/em>(i.e. expressed) in secular<\/em> terms. That is a good thing because it means that they can be understood and found agreeable by people of other religions, or who have no religious beliefs at all. It is a peril, however, when enough people forget or outright reject the moral code that informed those laws, which then makes those laws look merely arbitrary.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 9:22 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear S Mason,
\nHaving had a great deal of experience with dealing atheists unaccustomed to telling the truth, I reread your whiny posting. It\u2019s odd in the extreme that you refused to name any of the schools or other organizations financed\/operated by atheists. Name them here and I will research what you claim and send my results to the editor of this newspaper. If you are correct, I\u2019ll become an atjiest. If you are lying or exgeratimg or incorrect, you get the honor of becoming Catholic. Deal? If not, peddle your emotionalist nonsense elsewhere.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 9:16 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear S Mason,
\nFrom your stilted posting, one would think that all charities in the world were run by atheists. Do you have any proof of your claims? Please send the cancelled checks that the legion of supposedly charitable atheists to the editor of this newspaper. If you don\u2019t, there\u2019s no way to verify your grandiose claims. If you don\u2019t, then you don\u2019t have a leg to stand on. No intelligent, sane and sober person can deny Catholic generosity. If you have proof of your claims, don\u2019t be shy about sharing it with the rest if us. Thus far, you\u2019ve cherrypicked some anecdotal data. That\u2019s TWO logical errors in the same sentence. You obviously don\u2019t understand how to reate a logical statement because very few, if any, atheists have ever studied logic. Further, very few, if any atheists, will admit the truth about their abject ignorance of logic.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Chris Weiss on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 12:48 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nCommunism is a political philosophy for which atheism is a part of it, but atheism is not the reason communism exists.\u00a0 Similarly the other supposed \u201catheist\u201d atrocities were committed by points of view that did not spring from atheism.\u00a0 Instead, these political positions adopted atheism.\u00a0 This is very different from religions that exist because of their belief in a god or gods.\u00a0 Without this belief, these religions would not exist.\u00a0 Communism could exist with or without atheism.\u00a0 One could argue Jesus\u2019 selflessness could be a basis of the communist axiom: to each according to his need and from each according to his ability.
\nConsequently, the author has made some very basic logic errors in his irrational attacks on atheism.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Monday, Nov, 21, 2016 12:01 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201d I\u2019m not saying that atheists cannot feel such love, but if they do, it means they have found God.\u201d
\nHow ridiculous.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 7:54 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear Brad Feaker:
\nLike many confused atheists, you are equivocating (a logical fallacy) the words \u201csecular\u201d and \u201catheist.\u201d Our nation\u2019s highway system is secular but that doesn\u2019t make it \u201catheistic\u201d That would be ridiculous and stupid to support that argument.
\nYour second error is arguing that secular charities aren\u2019t interested in peddling dogma. How about Planned Parenthood? They peddle the unscientific idea that babies aren\u2019t human. PETA insists that cockroaches are the equal to human beings. American Socialists insist that socialism has never killed anyone, EVER. That\u2019s first-class secular twaddle.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Cyril on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 7:46 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nS Mason: With all due respect, I don\u2019t see anything logically coherent in anything you said. You basically regurgitated several of my points and then deflected them rather than engaging them. Case in point: Of course there aren\u2019t any charities run by people who believe in fairies because there aren\u2019t any adults who do believe in fairies\u2014only young children, and they, by and large, don\u2019t engage in much community organizing. That is a textbook example of a false analogy. (OK, I know someone is going to make a snide remark equating belief in God with belief in fairies [or the flying spaghetti monster or some such nonsense], but that would just go to show how uninformed such a person would be about Christian philosophy.) Another case in point: You said, \u201cAnd your point is?\u00a0 Everything used to be Christian.\u00a0 Go back not too far and it was positively dangerous not to be.\u00a0 It tells us nothing.\u201d My point would be many if I had more than 400 words to comment, but for the sake of brevity, I\u2019ll just echo your own words: \u201cEverything used to be Christian.\u201d That\u2019s one of my points: Christianity built Western civilization, including its charity infrastructure. Many people whine and complain about how bad Christianity is, yet I\u2019ve never heard any of these people say they\u2019d prefer to live in North Korea or in some other place on earth void of a Christian heritage. They have a philosophy of nonfalsification with regard to their beliefs about Christianity. If they see anything bad they don\u2019t like in our cultural heritage, then it\u2019s *because of Christianity.* On the other hand, if they see something they like, then it\u2019s *in spite of Christianity.* Bottom line, in their thinking, Christianity has never done and can never do anything right.
\n \n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 6:25 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Angelo Stagnaro
\nYou have slurred atheists with your article – and reassured posters like Ray Mantua here, who has expressed ignorance, hatred and vitriol repeatedly – despite challenges on the facts.\u00a0 This is not my faith.\u00a0 And yet – you at some level, are guilty by encouraging this.
\nI think you owe it to all of us, Catholics and atheists alike, to apologise and clarify.\u00a0 Please speak out.\u00a0 The anti-atheist sentiment, expressed so frequently, with untruths and misrepresentation, are not Christian.\u00a0 Please speak up.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kevin Rahe on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 6:17 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRobert said,<\/p>\n

Bill Gates is an atheist and runs the largest charity in the world.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The Gates Foundation does some good things, but the problem with humanitarian charities that see only physical human bodies in need and not souls with eternal dignity is that they begin to see people themselves as a problem. The natural thing to do in the face of a problem is to eliminate it, and we see that in the organizations the GF gives grants to, which are heavily skewed in favor of those that provide \u201cfamily planning\u201d services, for instance.
\nBrad Feaker said,<\/p>\n

Anyone ever heard of Doctors Without Borders?\u00a0 Totally secular.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And again we see an organization that has run off the rails ideologically by going beyond merely treating adverse medical conditions and preventing disease – i.e. providing actual health care. In fact, this one doesn\u2019t even respect medical discoveries made in the 19th century, namely those that identify the point at which an individual human being\u2019s life begins.\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 12:16 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Mason,
\nYour stifling ignorance and narcissism betrays you.
\nHere\u2019s some education for you: Theism is the REJECTION of the atheist magical, anti-scientific thinking that the universe simply popped into existence\u2014-nearly EVER theist will tell you this. atheists have failed in their attempt at their pseudo-scientific, misological, anti-intellectual idea that \u201catoms are magical and given time, anything will happen!\u201d If you have proof of this ridiculous, anti-scientific and illogical claim, don\u2019t be shy about sharing it with the rest of us.
\nThe supposed atrocities committed in the name of Christ to which you refer pale in comparison to the 250 million killed by atheists in the past 250 years. Remove the beam from your own eye before you attempt at taking the speck out of ours.
\natheists spend their time pretending they\u2019ve not committed horrific evil. That twas the title of Stagnaro\u2019s article\u2014-one you\u2019ve apparently not read. But your ignorance didn\u2019t stop you from expressing your ridiculous, under-educated ideas.
\nRead books on history, science and logic instead of lying about having done so. Your ignorance is no match for actual knowledge.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Jeff on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 12:12 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nThe title of this article asks a question that its body doesn\u2019t address. The author himself points out the flaw in his own reasoning. Atheists (and theists) have killed in the name of many philosophies and ideologies, many of those(like Marxism) virtual or actual religions themselves, but that is the point, they killed in the name of those movements, very seldom in the name of atheism itself.
\nAtheism is the lack of religion. It is only the lack of religion. The ideologies listed in the article lack a belief in God. Europe doesn\u2019t follow baseball. Saying that these philosophies killed \u201cin the name of atheism\u201d is the same as Europe has killed in the name of rejecting baseball. Correlation is not causation.
\nIf the question was do atheists kill in the name of beleifs and ideaologies, you would have made a strong case. Atheism is no sign of being more or less bloodthirsty, but it has seldom inspired murder it its name.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brad Feaker on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 11:38 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nAnd your entire post is another religious falsehood.
\nAnyone ever heard of Doctors Without Borders?\u00a0 Totally secular.\u00a0 Foundation Beyond Belief?\u00a0 The Todd Stiefel Foundation.\u00a0 Yeah, there are no secular charities.\u00a0 And the difference I appreciate about secular charities is that they aren\u2019t interested in peddling dogma – just helping their fellow humans.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kevin Rahe on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 10:11 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nThe reason we don\u2019t see anyone starting soup kitchens, charitable hospitals, food pantries, missions, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc. in the name of atheism is that these things first require love. I\u2019m not talking about what the world calls \u201clove\u201d these days, which is as much about getting<\/em> something as giving<\/em> something, but an altruistic love that lets one see a person as something more than what might be a rather pathetic physical existence. I\u2019m not saying that atheists cannot feel such love, but if they do, it means they have found God. In fact, I would wager that the discovery of this love in themselves is in many cases what drives those who become religious to do so, for an atheist mindset offers no logical explanation for it.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Edgar Torres on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 9:00 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI\u2019m Atheist and I\u2019m really happy with my life., The Pope said we can be saved (I don\u2019t care to be saved btw, I don\u2019t believe in the afterlife, but putting it in the Hitchens words I don\u2019t want to live forever in a Celestial North Korea Christianity It is the wish to be a slave in the afterlife, no thank you., here in Phoenix,AZ there\u2019re a lot of hospitals with the St on the name, but it doesn\u2019t make it free., actually are very expensive so I don\u2019t see the point on saying that an hospital having St is helping people., its not it\u2019s business. Goodwill is not free, and not cheap also., you can find better clothing at Ross and is new., University system before the enlightenment was garbage., before Galileo and Issac Newton, we didn\u2019t know anything about science., we knew some math and that\u2019s it., believing in an all powerful men up in the sky watching you doing everything you do, at the same time that other 6 billions of people is just silly.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 5:53 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Cyril
\n\u201cIan, your post just validates my point\u2014that one must Google atheist charities to find them. \u201c
\nBut you won;t find many charities organised by people who don\u2019t believe in fairies either.\u00a0 And yet the aid world is stuffed with atheists.\u00a0 I know – I\u2019ve worked in it.\u00a0 So many of my co-workers are quiet atheists.
\n\u201cYou won\u2019t see too many of them in your neighborhood, and for every one you do find, you\u2019ll find seven or eight Christian charities. \u201c
\nIt\u2019s a false claim: atheism is the position of not finding the evidence sufficient.\u00a0 That\u2019s it.
\n\u201cEven many secular charities\u201d
\nSecularist and atheist are radically different things: let\u2019s not confuse them.\u00a0 Many religious people see that secularism is a very good thing, as it protects us all, and gives all of us the freedom to practice our religions freely.
\n\u201d (e.g., the Red Cross and Goodwill) were originally Christian affiliated before they became more secularized. \u201c
\nAnd your point is?\u00a0 Everything used to be Christian.\u00a0 Go back not too far and it was positively dangerous not to be.\u00a0 It tells us nothing.
\n\u201cJust ask yourself why so many hospitals have \u201cSt\u201d in their name (St. Mary\u2019s, St. Joseph\u2019s, St. Christopher\u2019s). The same is true of the university system. It grew out of Christianity until it became secularized after the Enlightenment. There\u2019s simply no denying that the charity infrastructure in the Western world grew out of the gospel. \u201c
\nWell – there is plenty of denying it.\u00a0 But I suspect it\u2019s pointless: are you interested in new information?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Sunday, Nov, 20, 2016 1:09 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Robert,
\nThe incorrectness of your remark about Bill Gates is matched only by its ignorance. First, the Catholic Church is the largest philanthropic organization in human history. Catholics operate 125,000 hospitals and clinics and 135,000 schools for poor kids. Do you believe Bill Gates does that? If you did you\u2019d be wrong AND crazy. Second, Bill Gates never contributed a penny until he married his devoutly Catholic wife. Third, exactly how many atheists do you know who contribute to Gates\u2019 foundation? Do you? If you do, send your cancelled checks to the editor of this newspaper so we can finally see an example of atheist generosity. As everyone knows, it\u2019s easier to find a two-headed Republican unicorn than to find an atheist hospital, school for poor kids, food pantry or breadline. Fourth, why aren\u2019t you ashamed of not being to find more atheist charities? Fifth, why aren\u2019t you ashamed of not contributing to Bill Gates\u2019 foundation? Sixth, what have you done to help the poor and why do you feel it necessary to lie about having done so?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 5:08 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@ray mantua – continued, because this really matters.
\n\u201cYou lose. You lose because you people refuse to see God in the poor and suffering. \u201c
\nNow you are so offensive it\u2019s horrible.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t a playground.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t a kindergarten.\u00a0 You are an adult throwing insults.\u00a0 Whether you are right or wrong, as a Catholic you really should not do that.\u00a0 AS it happens, it\u2019s easy to demonstrate that there are things you don\u2019t know or don\u2019t accept to be true.\u00a0 The charity world is full of quiet atheists.\u00a0 That you don\u2019t know so, is your issue.
\nI don\u2019t suppose it\u2019s going to have any impact on you but: I am on the board of a charity providing education to the poorest in Sierra Leone and have been for over 20 years.\u00a0 We run a series of schools in Freetown and the provinces.
\nOne of the founders is an atheist.\u00a0 He donates significant amounts of his own money – and he isn\u2019t particularly wealthy – to helping those children. Like every other atheist I know he is a principled man, who happens to find the evidence for gods to be insufficient.\u00a0 That he is fairly typical but you don\u2019t know it, speaks to your lack of knowledge (there is a word for that).
\n\u201cYour apathy poisons and deludes you. Help poor people and God will introduce Himself to you. The more you refuse to help others, the darker your lives become.\u201d
\nYou are deluded: sorry – but really – really you are just making it up now and you need to educate yourself, and stop the insults to good people.\u00a0 You may perhaps find them to be reassuring or something.\u00a0 But the inaccuracy combined with the insults hurts all Catholics.\u00a0 Facts do actually matter.\u00a0 There are many very good atheists. Principles, ethical people, who you have just insulted without any kind of actual thought.
\n\u201cI doubt you\u2019ve read this comment all the way through but, if you have, avoid the typical atheist snarkiness. Read a book instead.\u201d
\nI need to point this back at you: can you read this to the end?\u00a0 Can you investigate and see whether your claims are actually true or not?\u00a0 And can you see the extreme snarkiness in your offensive insults towards a group who just happen not to share our faith?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 5:08 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Ray Mantua
\nI note how many posts you have on here – so atheism is clearly a subject that exercises you extensively.\u00a0 I think though that you don\u2019t actually know anything about it?
\n\u201cDear atheists:\u201d
\nHmmm\u2026 I wonder what\u2019s coming next?\u00a0 You clearly think atheists are a homogeneous group.\u00a0 That\u2019s just profoundly wrong. And any simple examination would show you that.\u00a0 But let\u2019s crack on.
\n\u201cDespite your fondest desires and wildest daydreams\u201d
\nSo still at it.\u00a0 You need to actually learn something about atheists.\u00a0 They aren\u2019t a) our enemies, or b) a homogeneous group.\u00a0 There is no Atheist creed.\u00a0 There is no common doctrine.\u00a0 They just find the evidence for gods to be insufficient.\u00a0 Claiming otherwise, doesn\u2019t change the facts: it is just a bit revealing about you.
\n\u201cthere are no atheist hospitals, hospices, leprosariums, breadlines, food pantries, schools for poor kids, retirement centers for the indigent poor, youth centers, etc\u2026.NONE. \u201c
\nWhy are you shouting?
\nSo you continue to completely miss the point.\u00a0 There are no hospitals organised by people who don\u2019t believe in Santa either.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t difficult to understand what atheism is – and, whether you like it or not, it\u2019s nothing like what you think it is.\u00a0 But you do have to at least try to understand what it is.\u00a0 It requires engagement and putting yourself outside your comfort zone.
\nThere are vanishingly few actual atheist organisations, organised around being atheist.\u00a0 And where they do exist they are typically either about trying to set up religious like structures of social support without religion, or completely political, aimed at trying to get religious influence out of the political sphere.
\n\u201cYou can pretend they exist but that\u2019s irrational. And as to Oxfam, Salvation Army, Red Cross, etc, they were all started by Christians. Sorry! \u201c
\nThis isn\u2019t a question of rationality: it\u2019s a question of evidence.\u00a0 If I offered evidence that there are charitable organisations started or run by atheists, would you apologise for your outburst and assertions?\u00a0 After all, if you are wrong, you\u2019ve been pretty offensive, right?
\n(continued below)\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 3:09 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay Mantua, you attempt to berate atheists while spitting poison about them.\u00a0 You can\u2019t even see yourself.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Latz on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 1:34 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nSo i guess you really don\u2019t like Communism?! Neither do I. That\u2019s where the agreement and the point you were trying to make ends as you are building the vaguest of strawmen while missing the point entirely.
\nCommunism is an ideology, not a religion for the simple fact there is no supernatural aspects to it. It\u2019s the same fallacy perpetrated by someone calling a religion (Christianity for example as that the first example i can recall of this) being called a philosophy, as there is the guy who rose from the dead could perform miracles and the like.
\nCrimes performed in the name of communism are crimes performed in the name of Communism. Atheism doesn\u2019t have an ideology. An ideology can be atheistic but that\u2019s not the same as there being an atheist ideology.
\nAhteism is a stance on the belief in a deity\u2014and absolutely nothing else. Nothing. An atheist can be a humanist just as he\/she can be a misantropic sadist. The only commonality being neither of the two have a reason to believe there exists a deity.
\nA stance on a single question does not an ideology make.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 12:29 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@Fr Jason Clark
\n\u201cMr Cooper, where in the writings of the New Testament are Christians encouraged to hate, condemn, and kill others? Please be specific.\u201d
\nBut Jason Clark, you have misrepresented what Mr Cooper said, right?\u00a0 You\u2019ve fundamentally misquoted him.
\nPresumably from your title, you\u2019re a cleric of the RCC: doesn\u2019t misrepresntation come high on the list of things we are not supposed to do?\u00a0 I suggest you need to apologise.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Dave on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 12:08 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nThe discussion has digressed, but I feel compelled to respond to this charity question. Just as there is no killing in the name of atheism, there is no giving in the name of atheism or as a means to promote atheism via a charity. The so-called atheist charities are not really atheist charities because no such thing is needed. Atheists don\u2019t give as a means of appeasing a higher power or to promote atheism. We give to help. In contrast, religious organizations use charities as a PR vehicle, and a means to proselytize to those who are being helped (the argument has always been that\u2019s it\u2019s a small price to pay for help, but then people who need help shouldn\u2019t have to pay anything). Case in point, the arguments about how many religious charities there are and how much easier it is to find them. Yes, because that\u2019s the real point of having them, isn\u2019t it? That\u2019s why it\u2019s being brought up in these comments. The so-called atheist charities, in contrast, are just charities that don\u2019t appear to have any clear political or religious agenda, so they\u2019re for any atheist or anyone actually who just wants their donations to go to help people with no strings attached, no preaching or what not. A so-called atheist charity then is just a true, pure charity and yes, sadly, such altruism is rare.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Saturday, Nov, 19, 2016 3:52 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear atheists:
\nDespite your fondest desires and wildest daydreams, there are no atheist hospitals, hospices, leprosariums, breadlines, food pantries, schools for poor kids, retirement centers for the indigent poor, youth centers, etc\u2026.NONE. You can pretend they exist but that\u2019s irrational. And as to Oxfam, Salvation Army, Red Cross, etc, they were all started by Christians. Sorry! You lose. You lose because you people refuse to see God in the poor and suffering. Your apathy poisons and deludes you. Help poor people and God will introduce Himself to you. The more you refuse to help others, the darker your lives become.
\nI doubt you\u2019ve read this comment all the way through but, if you have, avoid the typical atheist snarkiness. Read a book instead.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by s mason on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 7:12 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@\u201c5. Atheists who make nonsensical, ahistorical and misological claims such as this one, prove they\u2019ve never truly examined their own community\u2019s behavior\u201d
\nAnd so you betray yourself.\u00a0 Atheism really does not have a community.\u00a0 I\u2019ve tried to explore it.\u00a0 Atheism includes leftists, libertarians, Maoists.\u00a0 You prejudices really do betray you.
\nHere\u2019s some education for you: atheism is the state of finding the evidence insufficient.\u00a0 We can choose to disagree and find the evidence sufficient, but as you try to disassociate Christians from the atrocities committed in the name of Christ, and slur all atheists with the atrocities committed by atheists, your (unbelievably see-through) argument falls apart.
\nWe have to do better than this: it is utterly ridiculous.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 5:57 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear atheist vfilipch and those atheists who might unthinkingly agree with him\u2026
\n\u201cAtheism itself contains no ideological components.\u201d This statement is patently and demonstrably false. If it wasn\u2019t, you people would be a great deal more pleasant and a lot less murderous.
\nAs Fyodor Dostoevsk pointed out, \u201cIf there is no God, everything is permitted.\u201d This is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in that the fact that atheist monsters have killed 250 million people in the past 250 years. The Encyclopedia of War says that only 7% of wars in world history were fought for religious purposes. Thus, secularists, using godless reasons, have perpetuated an outrageous amount of evil upon the world. If you were theists, you would have only killed a tiny fraction of that number. Your atheism teaches you that there are no moral standards and THUS you kill with impunity and then ignore the results of your own depravity. Congratulations on the evil you\u2019ve committed. I presume you hope to be lauded for it. Otherwise, you should stop instantly. And I cannot stress this enough READ A BOOK BEFORE FORMING AN OPINION OTHERWISE YOU MARK YOURSELF WITH THE STENCH OF IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Robert on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 4:41 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nBill Gates is an atheist and runs the largest charity in the world.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Cyril on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 4:37 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nIan, your post just validates my point\u2014that one must Google atheist charities to find them. You won\u2019t see too many of them in your neighborhood, and for every one you do find, you\u2019ll find seven or eight Christian charities. Even many secular charities (e.g., the Red Cross and Goodwill) were originally Christian affiliated before they became more secularized. Just ask yourself why so many hospitals have \u201cSt\u201d in their name (St. Mary\u2019s, St. Joseph\u2019s, St. Christopher\u2019s). The same is true of the university system. It grew out of Christianity until it became secularized after the Enlightenment. There\u2019s simply no denying that the charity infrastructure in the Western world grew out of the gospel. Animal charities? I love animals, but I don\u2019t put them on equal footing with humans. Yes, I\u2019m a speciesist. Harambe was a magnificent animal, but his life was not as important as that little boy\u2019s.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by vfilipch on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 11:13 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nAtheism itself contains no ideological components. It doesn\u2019t tell there is One Right Way To Live (politically, morally, economically, etc), while every ideology does, including every religion. To blame atheism for crimes committed by followers of any ideology is as idiotic as to blame milk just because most of such followers had been drinking milk.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 9:36 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear atheists,
\nIf any of you think you\u2019ve contributed more than the average Catholic to charity, feel free to send the cancelled checks to the editor of this newspaper to prove it. I\u2019ll send my most generous contributions. Whoever is the least generous gets to convert to Catholicism.
\nIt\u2019s tiresome to listen to atheists brag about how wonderful they without proof thereof. This is the time to put up or shut up. I\u2019ve got my cancelled checks ready. Send yours to the editor of this newspaper alomg with your name, address and contact information. He can identify you by your user ID. I won\u2019t run from this challenge. I\u2019ll go so far as to challenge any three of you morally-apathetic cheapskates. If three of the atheists who have thus far whined making grandiose claims on this page have collectively contrubuted more than I have in any given year, I\u2019ll convert to atheism. If I\u2019ve contributed more than you three whiners, you all get the honor of converting to Catholicism\u2026a truly philanthropic organization. If you don\u2019t wish to take the challenge, that would mean you are all narcaistic talk and no philanthropic action.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 9:22 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear atheists\u2026
\nI stand behind Stagnaro\u2019s comment on atheist charities. Where are the atheist hospitals, breadlines, soup kitchens, retirement centers for the indigent poor? Atheists are quick to glom SECULAR institutions as if they had actually planned and financed them on their own as Catholics plan amd finance our own hospitals, et al. This is ridiculous. Are you also suggesting that our nation\u2019s highways are atheistic because driving is an atheistic endeavor and atheists contribute ONLY 5% of their total cost of construction and upkeep? That would meam Christians contribute 85% of the cost of \u201catheistic\u201d institutions. Are you people crazy? Are you suggesting that driving a car is an atheistic endeavor? The fact that this has to be explained to you proves you are incapable of thinking logically. And the halfbaked idea that all hospitals are \u201catheistic\u201d because science is \u201catheistic\u201d is ludicrous. Where is this imaginary science book that atheists ARENT reading that says science is atheistic? Put down the bong and pick up a book instead of defensively amd narcissistically lying about having read a book.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ian Cooper on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 6:16 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nCyril, you have to use google to find ANY charity whose name you don\u2019t already know, so the idea that this shows anything at all (other than your bias) is complete nonsense. Besides, some of the best rated charities are secular. Here are just a few: Oxfam, the Animal Welfare Institute, Friends of the Earth, Human Rights Watch, Attorneys for the Rights of the Child.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 3:09 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Rick,
\n* Counterpoint:\u201d Hitler\u2019s atheism came out in the Nuremburg Trial. You can read the transcripts if you want to find the truth but atheists NEVER READ BOOKS. There\u2019s the citation! But you don\u2019t care because you think yourself intelligent BY REFUSING TO READ BOOKS. Very irrational of you. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint:\u201d Hitler\u2019s atheism is best supported by the fact that his two chief aides, Heydrich and Himmler, the architects of the Final Solution, were both hardcore atheists. It would be odd in the extreme to think that a \u201cdevout Catholic\u201d you pretend Hitler to be, would hobnob with two atheist genocidal maniacs. The fact that you didn\u2019t know any of this AGAIN proves you\u2019ve never read a book on the subject but instead \u201cfeel\u201d your angry, self-righteous ignorance is somehow a match for actual knowledge. That\u2019s irrational and indicative of atheist magical thinking. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint:\u201d Here\u2019s another article you\u2019ll refuse to read: https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
\nYou lose the point.
\n*Final Counterpoint *: Nobody \u201chates\u201d us? You hate books, You hate to be shown you are wrong. You hate anyone who disagrees with you. Have you had intimate dealings with every atheist in the world? If not, from whence does your magical knowledge of the motives of all atheists in world history come?
\nYou foolishly, stupidly think that atheists who kill Christians \u201clove us?\u201d Put down the bong and pick up a book. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint *: You make a very poor point when you lump islam and jihadists with Christians and Christianity. Most anthropologists identify islam as a socio-military complex with a superficial metaphysical overlay akin to Nazism and Pre-War State Shintoism. In others words, they are secularists intent on creating a secular hell on earth\u2026just like atheists of the 18th through to the 21st centuries. But, of course, as an atheist, you \u201cfeel\u201d you can simply look at a book and \u201cmagically\u201d absorb the information. Thus, far, considering your \u201cpoints\u201d you\u2019ve pretended and have irrationally convinced yourself that you are an expert in history, anthropology, logic, religion and theology. You obviously know precious little about these subjects. If not, cite your bibliographic sources like a Christian instead of lying about having read books like an atheist. You lose the point.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 2:57 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Rick
\nHere are some more things you\u2019ve gotten wrong. You will ALWAYS be wrong unless you read books. You will even ignore my obvious, logical and intelligent urging you to read books. You know noting about history UNLESS YOU READ BOOKS:
\n* Counterpoint *:\u00a0 The article you OBVIOUSLY refused to read specifically pointed out that if atheists wish to demonize theists (i.e., Catholics) they\u2019ll need to first do penance for the evil they\u2019ve committed. The fact that you wrote as you did ignored that salient point proves you didn\u2019t read the article. This isn\u2019t surprising as atheists refuse to read articles (including the ones they are ineptly trying to dismantle.) You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint *: All atheists are \u201cglib\u201d about mass murderers when they refuse to admit that the 20th and 21st centuries are replete with atheist genocidal maniacs. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint *: The article you refused to read specifically challenged atheists by saying it doesn\u2019t matter whether atheists kill in the name of atheism, they still killed by far more than any other group in terms of sheer numbers and per capita. Atheists represent a tiny percentage of the world\u2019s population and yet you maniacs managed to kill 150 million just in communist atheist countries. Those killed by your brothers and sisters aren\u2019t mollified to learn that you didn\u2019t kill them in the \u201cname of atheism\u201d but rather simply because atheism makes you people violent. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint:\u201d Everyone knows Hitler was baptized Catholic as a child. If you opened your eyes (and a book), you\u2019ll find many of your fellow inwardly blind atheists have similarly been baptized as infants. However, they became atheists as adults. I\u2019m ashamed of your limited intelligence at forcing me to explain this to you. By the way, Stalin was an Orthodox seminarian and Mao a committed Buddhist but that didn\u2019t stop them from killing nearly 100 million people just between the two of them. Marc Hoffman acted like a committed Mormon when he killed his victims but he admitted that he never bought into Mormonism. Napoleon was an atheist. Mussolini was an atheist. Plutarco Calles was an atheist. You lose the point.
\n* Counterpoint:\u201d Hitler pointed out that he was Catholic. He also pointed out that he was protestant. He also lamented that the fact that moslems never completely conquered Europe during the 8th century saying, \u201cIt would be easier to lead moslems into battle rather than wishy-washy Christians.\u201d It\u2019s stupid to suddenly trust a known pathological liar and take him as his word. Hitler also made Christmas illegal in Germany for two years in a row. He also conspired to kidnap the pope. That doesn\u2019t sound like a Catholic however, atheists would love to remove Christmas from of the American calendar. You lose the point.
\nYou will always lose an atheistic argument against a Christian who has read the books you are only pretending to read.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Friday, Nov, 18, 2016 2:53 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Rick,
\nYour \u201cpoints\u201d are proof you, like the vast majority of other atheists, have never read a book in your life. These \u201cpoints\u201d are ones found on .gifs which atheists, hiding in the Web\u2019s anonymity, send out to Christians, but never Jews or Moslems, to satisfy some dark, twisted, anti-intellectual urge. If you had read a history book, you would have backed up your \u201cpoints\u201d with bibliographic references. Instead, you overhead gossip and you took careful note of every ridiculous, anti-intellectual, ahistorical atheistic whine and simply vomited them out here on this site.
\n*Counterpoint*: You obviously never looked up the word \u201creligion.\u201d This isn\u2019t surprising as atheists refuse to read books (including dictionaries.) A religion is a particular system of faith but faith doesn\u2019t necessarily mean of the supernatural; variety. Religion is a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance. Religion is a personal set or institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs, and practices. In this regard, atheism is a religion. And, just in case you still don\u2019t get it (high probability), the US and Canadian Supreme Courts have decreed atheism as such. You lose the point.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Cyril on Thursday, Nov, 17, 2016 12:55 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI think the fact that one has to Google \u201catheist charities\u201d to find them speaks a lot. Yes, they\u2019re out there, but they\u2019re not easy to find. Where I live one need not Google \u201cchristian charities.\u201d One need only drive down the block. Within a fifteen minute drive from my house, I can find a Catholic hospital (the only hospital in town), a Catholic food pantry, a salvation army, a nondenominational crisis pregnancy center, a Goodwill (which is Methodist affiliated), two nondenominational rescue missions, and a Catholic church that hosts a soup kitchen in its basement once a month. Of course, there is also the county welfare office. Having said that, I have NO intention of knocking atheists, and I don\u2019t think anybody else should either. On the whole they\u2019re good people, and we shouldn\u2019t believe otherwise. After all, we all descended from a common stock, and nature has instilled within us all the capacity both to love and to hate. Eons of descent with modification have endowed us with the instinct to survive at all cost and to pass along our genes to a new generation\u2014a trait, unfortunately, that often tempts us to selfishness. So, yes, we\u2019re all humans and we share a common human nature. But I do think our ideology has a significant influence in how we behave, both individually and collectively. I just don\u2019t think that a secular worldview (a worldview that says this is all there is) can, on the whole, compel people to the same degree of charity that religious motivations can. And I think the fact that the vast majority of charities throughout history have been religiously affiliated is evidence of that. I am NOT saying that this in any way is evidence for the existence of God. And I am NOT saying that atheists are not good people. Nor am I saying that all Christians are good people. I am merely saying that all things being equal, a religious worldview in which people believe in a just but merciful God is more likely to produce a world where charity flourishes than a worldview in which people believe it\u2019s lights out in a few decades at most with no ultimate consequences.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Elvenpath on Thursday, Nov, 17, 2016 7:09 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nThat is pure nonsense. The French Revolution was not atheistic. I t was against the corrupt catholic churches and the gentry. BUt the people were all believers. The churches and the gentry conspired against the middle classes.
\nCommunism is NOT an atheistic religion. That is absolute bullshit. Communism is an ideology and does not depend on the supernatural (like religions).
\nAnd only a minority of atheisms in the western world are communists.
\nThe author of this article has just one goal: To diffamte atheists as communists.
\nAnd it is a lie, that atheists never helped anyone. Atheists are mostly humanists. And humanists have developed the human rights, which are responsible for our free world, our free thinking.\u00a0 Religions have fought every one of the human rights, we have today.
\nThis is a hate-speech of a religios lunatic, containig lies and difamations.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by apostaste on Thursday, Nov, 17, 2016 7:05 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nYou are fundamentally misrepresenting the point that was made by atheists.
\nWe are NOT talking about simply adding up all the bad thing that atheists or theists did and blaming the ism for the actions of individuals even when they have nothing in common.
\nWe are talking about beliefs and their consequences. Try the following thought experiment.
\nCan you think of an atrocity that was carried out explicitly as a consequence of a religious dogma that an individual would not have carried out without it. Before I can say allahu akbar I guarantee your mind is teeming with examples.
\nNow can you think of an atrocity that was carried out explicitly because someone lacked a belief in god\u2026…
\nCrickets.
\nThat is the argument which was presented usually as a retort to thiests unwarranted claim to moral highground. Please actually bother to address the real arguments next time instead of misrepresentation into a strawman to tear apart, its kinda dishonest.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Rick on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 9:27 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n*Point*: Religion is, by definition, belief in a higher power. Communism has no such belief (neither do atheists), so it doesn\u2019t matter what the Catholic Church thinks, it matters what words mean.
\n*Point*: If you are going to condemn atheists for \u201cnot doing good things\u201d, then you need have a balanced ledger for religion as well, for while there are good things, there are surely *many* bad things as well (Crusades, burning witches and heretics, Thirty Years\u2019 War, jihad, holy war, etc.)
\n*Point*: I know no atheists who are \u201cglib\u201d about mass murderers who are atheist. What they say is that none of them killed people \u201cin the name of atheism\u201d as people of religion so often did (and do). There are amoral and immoral people in both the atheist and religious camp.
\n*Point:\u201d You seem to include Hitler\u2019s death count in your total, yet Hitler (and Goering) was raised Catholic and made favorable comments about the religion during his early life, young life, as a politician, and in later life as well.
\n*Final point*: Nobody \u201chates\u201d you. We don\u2019t like that people of religion insist that we abide by their beliefsas it regards, say, the functioning of our own bodies. We are happy to have you do with yours what you like, but stop telling us that your super-deity insists we do the same, even if we don\u2019t believe in him.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 8:51 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRay Mantua writes \u201cWhere are these remarkable atheist charities? Don\u2019t put yourself out locating them, no one can find them.\u201d
\nNo, YOU can\u2019t find them.\u00a0 I can find them by googling \u201catheist charities\u201d, which shows you didn\u2019t do even the least bit of checking\u2014you simply wanted to lie about charitable atheists.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 1:59 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nIan Cooper\u2026one more thing\u2026It\u2019s ridiculous of you to quote the Old Testament to \u201cprove\u201d Christians are bad. Do you quote the New Testament to prove Jews are bad? Let\u2019s quote the koran to prove atheists are wrong as long as we\u2019re at it. By the way, your opinions of Jews must be horrific if you can quote the Old Testament out of context. Why don\u2019t you regale us with your antisemitic rants herein? If Jews dutifully ignore those passages, then from whence are you getting these factoids of yours that Christians are dutifully obeying them?
\nIf Christians were motivated to hatred and murder, then surely you can point out damaging quotes from the New Testament. But, don\u2019t hold your breathe, you won\u2019t find any.
\nAs to \u201cchoices,\u201d atheists have the \u201cchoice\u201d to follow Ayn Rand, Karl Marx, Frederick Friedrich Nietzsche, Adolf Hitler, Napoleon, Plutarcho Calles, Mao, Stalin and thousands of other atheist genocidal maniacs. If atheism was a force of good in this world, there wouldn\u2019t be as many atheist genocidal maniacs as there have been for the past 250 years.
\nStop pretending you\u2019ve read history books. You\u2019re only able to fool other atheists who similarly pretend to read books. Your ignorance is no match for actual knowledge.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 1:47 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nIan Cooper: The Catholic Church is the world\u2019s largest and most successful philanthropic organization. No one suggested that Catholics, or Christians in general, are perfect but atheists often describe themselves in glowing terms that aren\u2019t reflective of reality.
\nIf you know of any atheist food pantries, soup kitchens, hospitals, school for poor kids, retirement centers for the indigent poor, etc, please don\u2019t keep this knowledge to yourself. Feel free to share it with the entire audience. Where are these remarkable atheist charities? Don\u2019t put yourself out locating them, no one can find them.
\nThus, the score, if you\u2019ve been keeping track is that the Catholic Church created modern science (including all of the major paradigms of currently understood scientific research,) universities, social work centers and hospitals and have helped tens of billions of people in the past 2000 years. Atheists have done none of these things AND have killed 250 million people in the past 250 years. Have there been some bad Christians who think their secularist values can supplant Christian ones? Of course! No one has ever argued differently. Those theists that atheists have killed never wondered if the gun held in an atheist\u2019s hand was aimed at them because the atheist is an atheist however, no one one should be confused to believe that those atheists weren\u2019t really atheists.
\nIf atheists are as wonderful as you\u2019re pretending, you monsters wouldn\u2019t have killed as many humans as you have. You should be more reflective and read more rather than pretending you have some intelligent outlook on history and the human condition.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Cyril on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 1:30 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nIan, you deserve a gold medal for scriptural gymnastics, for what you have done is wrench a few verses out of context to make a preconceived point. As most New Testament exegetes note, Jesus\u2019 point in the passages you quote is that he himself is the fulfillment of the law. He didn\u2019t abolish the law because he himself fulfilled it. Here is another quote of Jesus from Deuteronomy that no one can dismiss: \u201cYe have heard that it hath been said, \u2018Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.\u2019 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you\u201d (Lk 6:27-28). Jesus is being *very* clear: The law told you to do that, but I tell you to do this. This was the way the early church unanimously interpreted the very clear words of Christ. Read the early church fathers (e.g., Clement, Origen, Polycarp, Ignatius) and try to find any of them interpreting Jesus\u2019 words the way you do. You won\u2019t be successful. They were extremely peaceful people. Another good read I would recommend is Dr. Stephen Cook\u2019s commentary on Deuteronomy. Cook, a Yale-trained scholar of the highest calibre, takes readers on a journey through the entire book of Deuteronomy, explaining many of the customs of the time and putting those verses you quoted into context.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by John Laurence on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 12:48 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201cIf there is no God, how can there be atheists?\u201d – G.K. Chesterton
\nThat statement \u2018reveals\u2019 that there is undoubtedly an \u2018agenda\u2019 for self proclaimed atheists. There is certain \u2018power\u2019 in such a proclamation, due to the \u2018blindness\u2019 that it brings upon unsuspecting people. Atheism garners a \u2018similar\u2019 response that wearing a cross does for Christians\u2026or a Star of David for Jews\u2026or a Crescent moon for Muslims, etc.
\nAtheism certainly has a purpose\u2026and this article does well to shed \u2018some\u2019 light on its purpose!\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ian Cooper on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 12:46 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nFr. Clark, Christians do not only have to follow the New Testament. Jesus said, in Matthew 5:17-18
\n\u201cThink not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.\u201d
\nand in Luke 16:17
\n\u201cAnd it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.\u201d
\nNow let\u2019s look at how the Bible requires Christians to condemn and kill others. Don\u2019t forget, Jesus said that these laws are still relevant\u2026
\nDeuteronomy 13:6-11
\n\u201cIf your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, \u2018Let us go and serve other gods,\u2019 which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
\nDeuteronomy 17:2-20
\n\u201cIf there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it, then you shall inquire diligently, and if it is true and certain that such an abomination has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones. On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die shall be put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.
\n2 Chronicles 15:13
\n\u201cBut that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.\u201d\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by bob mounger on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 12:22 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n@ No3
\nThese \u201crational,\u201d \u201cenlightened\u201d French Revolutionaries also beheaded Antoine Lavoisier, The discoverer of Oxygen, & Father of Chemistry.
\nEverytime someone brings up Galileo, I think of Lavoisier. House arrest might have sounded good to him\u2026\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Darren on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 12:14 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDear Ian Cooper,
\nPlease let me know where I can find the Doctrine on Atheism.\u00a0 And please tell me proof of your statements on Christianity.\u00a0 Which Bible are you referring to?\u00a0 The Protestant version or the Catholic version?
\nEver hear of the Ten Commandments?\u00a0 If I recall there is this particular one that says \u201cThou Shalt Not Kill\u201d?
\nThere is a line from the Bible that states \u201cJudge with right judgment\u201d.\u00a0 There is nothing there for condemning others.\u00a0 Jesus gave us the \u201cOur Father\u201d prayer.\u00a0 \u201cForgive us as we forgive others\u201d.\u00a0 I see forgiveness and mercy.
\nAnd Christians do hate one thing.\u00a0 Sin.\u00a0 Not people.\u00a0 If I remember correctly, Jesus also said, \u201cLove your enemies\u201d.\u00a0 Since you claim we hate, I would assume this is referring to those with same-sex attraction.\u00a0 These people are psychologically duped.\u00a0 Using reality and just plain biological science and some common sense would tell one that man and woman were made for each other.\u00a0 One\u2019s thoughts or feeling\u2019s in this case does not represent who they are.\u00a0 They are children of God.\u00a0 Not some fake \u201cLGBTetc\u201d created by, let me see, atheists.\u00a0 The USSR was very good at undermining morality and even though the USSR has fallen, it\u2019s false tendrils are alive and well in the U.S. as well has Hitler\u2019s philosophy.
\nIf those are true then your statement on why those crimes reflect badly makes no philosophical sense.
\nIf they are true then it would reflect rightly upon other Christians.
\nThe reason it does reflect badly is because Catholicism calls us to be better than who we are.\u00a0 When we fail, it seems we are hypocrites but we have a God who is merciful and we ask for forgiveness.
\nDoes the Doctrine on Atheism mention forgiveness?
\nAnd you miss the point of this article.\u00a0 Atheists have caused more death and destruction than other religious beliefs.
\nAtheists in fact do have a god.\u00a0 It\u2019s just that \u201cno-god\u201d has become their god.\u00a0 Note the paradox of this statement.\u00a0 Just by thinking about that statement proves there God does exist.
\nAnyway, not all \u201cChristians\u201d believe in the same Bible.\u00a0 The Catholic Church put the Bible together.\u00a0 The Reformation removed books because they couldn\u2019t come to terms to what was Truth especially Luther and Calvin.
\nAre you just using \u201csola scriptura\u201d in your interpretation of the Bible?\u00a0 Who do you go to for authoritative interpretation of the Bible?
\nSome questions for you to ponder upon.
\nGod bless.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Erik on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 12:14 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nDon\u2019t forget that many people who believe that the world is round also have killed others. The nazis during WW2 believed that the world was round. Therefore, the belief that the world also cause war. Nazism is a round-earth ideology. It\u2019s a ideology created by round-earth beleivers, celebrated by people round-earth beleivers, and defended by round-Earth beleivers
\n 
\nThis logical fallacy is called \u201cGuilt by Association.\u201d\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ray Mantua on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 11:46 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nHi Ian\u2026I\u2019m unsure if your confused state led you to atheism or perhaps your atheism contributes to your confusion. There are many atheistic philsopies that urge their followers to kill and enslave theists including communism, Ayn Rand\u2019s objectivism (who advocated genocide against American Indians because they hadn\u2019t produced a captilistic society) early 20th century Mexican Republicanism, nietzschism, French Enlightenism, French Republicanism and, if atheist polemicist Sam Harris is correct about Trump being a crypto-atheist, then everything our President-elect has proposed.
\nWhen atheists ignore the 250 million dead in the past 250 years at the hands of genocidal atheist maniacs by pretending \u201cwell\u2026they killed NOT because of the atheism,\u201d that\u2019s a sign of atheist anti-intellectualism and moral apathy. 3000 people dead during the Spanish Inquisition is nothing compared to the horrors that are associated\/the result of not believing in God. If you were correct, then you\u2019d see similar numbers resulting from the supposed hate of Christians. Thus far, athiets win the hatred game and scoring pretty big.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Fred Z on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 11:39 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI agree with what Ian Cooper commented earlier.\u00a0 It appears that you are saying (in points 1 & 2), that all atheists are members of some group of the \u2018-ism\u2019 list, and therefore they are responsible for any atrocity committed by any of those groups.
\nIf we flip that argument, I could say that Christians are responsible for any Muslim suicide bombing, since you are both theists.\u00a0 See? The comparison doesn\u2019t work.\u00a0 However, Ian Cooper\u2019s premise does stand up – there are no tenets in any definition of atheism that urges a person to do harm to another, but the Bible and Koran (and other sacred books) *do* have passages that encourage harm.
\nBTW, point #6 is flatly inaccurate. Just google \u2018Atheist charities\u2019 and you will find a large list of Atheists doing good in the world.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Fr Jason Clark on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 11:23 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nMr Cooper, where in the writings of the New Testament are Christians encouraged to hate, condemn, and kill others? Please be specific.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Dave on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 10:29 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nThe entire argument is based on a false premise, that atheism is a system with directives that call for violence. It\u2019s not, therefore suggesting that an atheist person or group who commits violence is evidence that such violence was committed in the name of atheism is as ridiculous as suggesting it was committed in the name of silly mustaches if they all had silly mustaches.
\nTo further the analogy, if they imposed a rule that everyone must have a silly mustache, and the Holy Church of Beards opposed them, then any retaliating action against the Church would not be the fault of silly mustaches.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Brian Westley on Wednesday, Nov, 16, 2016 1:31 AM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201cEven if we were to ignore the obvious crimes against humanity that atheistic communists have committed, atheism would be condemned simply by examining the devastation of the French Revolution.\u201d
\n\u201cIf the negative actions of any and all theists reflect badly upon all theists, all forms of religion and all religionists then it follows that the negative actions of any and all atheists reflect badly upon all atheists, all forms of irreligion and all irreligionists. This logical fallacy is called \u201cGuilt by Association.\u201d\u201c
\nIt would help if the author wouldn\u2019t blatantly contradict himself in the space of two paragraphs.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Bob Johnson on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 11:24 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI agree with the first commenter.
\n2 – Communism is a political philosophy – you cannot call any strongly held philosophical beliefs a \u201creligion\u201d. That would only be true in a metaphorical sense, like saying someone is \u201creligious\u201d about making their bed each morning.
\n3 – I don\u2019t know enough about the French Revolution, so I will let this point stand.
\n4 – Hitler and Stalin both had mustaches. Therefore mustaches cause dictatorship. See how silly this argument is? You clearly don\u2019t know what atheism is. Atheism is just a lack of belief in god, it says nothing else about the person. It is not a philosophy, it has no creed, there are no funny hats to wear.
\n5 – There you go, it is at least possible to try to connect those other isms to poor behavior, because they are not \u201ca-\u201d meaning \u201coutside\u201d. But I\u2019d need to know specifics of how someone killed in the name of one of those isms.
\n6 – \u201cWhy is it that no one has ever been helped anyone in the name of atheism?\u201d\u00a0 Because that would be silly. It would be the same as asking why no one has ever been helped in the name of \u201cnot collecting stamps\u201d. Understand?
\n7 – Catholics do try to help in the world. They cause some strife as well, but on the balance, they do more good than harm. I don\u2019t have any problem saying that. It also has no bearing on whether or not god exists.
\n8 – \u201cThey never organize themselves to help the unfortunate. It\u2019s because they can\u2019t and simply don\u2019t want to.\u201d You seem to see atheism as some sort of club, it is not. Now on the other hand, being a Humanist is what you are, not what you are not. And those folks do congregate, help each other, have charitable initiatives, etc.
\n\u201cIt\u2019s amazing anyone psychologically and spiritually survives the wholesale rejection of hope, logic and reality as they cherry pick data to uphold their opinions.\u201d
\nI certainly don\u2019t hope for an afterlife, that is rather silly. All the good I do must be done in this life, before I die. As far as reality goes, everything appears to be the result of natural processes. It all seems to fit together that way.
\nYour picture of atheism sounds like what I might have heard 40 years ago, before all the authors that helped explain it better. Have you read any of those books?
\nGo ask an atheist what they believe in regarding life, then come back and report here. Don\u2019t mischaracterize us.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Tom Byrne on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 11:07 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI find some of the \u201c-isms\u201d on your list a bit of a puzzle.\u00a0 I\u2019m not a libertarian, but I\u2019m not aware that atheism is necessarily a part of that philosophy.\u00a0 The late Joseph Sobran was a libertarian and a devote Catholic.\u00a0 Industrialization isn\u2019t a philosophy at all.\u00a0 Are you suggesting there\u2019s something atheistic about building or working in a factory, in the manner of a William Blake?\u00a0 Individualism is a vague term and can mean anything from narcissism (which is atheistic, unless the self is a god) to merely the mental habit of not letting the government or others push one around without justification.\u00a0 You spread an awfully big net for a one-page article!\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Jenson71 on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 10:18 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nI don\u2019t think it\u2019s accurate to say that the Catholic Church holds that communism is a religion. Honestly, I think it\u2019s probably very much the opposite is what the Church views communism as. Got any authority on that?\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Robert Gallup on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 9:50 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nRubbish.
\nLack of belief in gods is no more a \u201cphilosophy\u201d than lack of belief in leprechauns; people behave on the beliefs they have, not the beliefs they don\u2019t have. Atheism, unlike religion, is completely free of content. As such, there is no symmetry.
\nBy the same faulty reasoning used in this article, we may blame Pol Pot\u2019s mass murder on his lack of belief in unicorns and not his belief in totalitarianism. Likewise, Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were theists, therefore the 620,000 who died in the American Civil War were killed in the name of theism.
\nAs a Humanist and unbeliever I\u2019m accustomed to Fundamentalist venom but it\u2019s surprising to find Catholics using a similar poison. Thankfully, this article is not a representative viewpoint of the faith\u2014which I hold in high regard relative to others\u2014and Pope Francis offers a more encouraging and enlightened perspective: http:\/\/www.catholic.org\/news\/hf\/faith\/story.php?id=51077\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Asilomar on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 7:18 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nYou are missing the point.\u00a0 All of your statements above were not done in the NAME of Atheism.\u00a0 Religion (Christian, Muslim, etc) do things in service to their religion, because of their religion.\u00a0 You are an infidel, I cut off your head.\u00a0 You are a non-believer, I burn you at the stake.\u00a0 You don\u2019t follow one of our laws, we torture you until you confess, then we burn you for your sins.
\nYou are equating Communism with Atheism and saying that the evil done in the name of Communism equates to doing evil for Atheism, and that is disingenuous.\u00a0 Communism may be Atheistic, but one need not be a communist to be an atheist and vice versa.\u00a0 Your argument falls.
\nNext you talk about the French Revolution, the Divine Right of Kings vs Democracy.\u00a0 Again, this is not religious vs atheist; individuals were not killing in the name of God or because God did not exist, but for the status quo vs a new system of government.\u00a0 Wow are you reaching.
\nYour right to be a Christian or an Atheist, I really don\u2019t care, but you are completely characterizing these murders – no one was killed because they believed in God, there was always an underlying cause.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Ian Cooper on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 6:12 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\n\u201cIf the negative actions of any and all theists reflect badly upon all theists, all forms of religion and all religionists then it follows that the negative actions of any and all atheists reflect badly upon all atheists, all forms of irreligion and all irreligionists.\u201d
\nBut the harmful actions of individuals do NOT reflect badly upon all others who subscribe to the philosophy of those individuals, unless that philosophy urges its followers to commit harmful actions. The harmful actions of individual atheists do not reflect badly upon other atheists because atheism does not urge atheists to do harm. Christianity DOES tell Christians to do harm: it urges Christians to hate, to condemn others, and even to kill. This is the difference, and this is why Christian crimes reflect badly on other Christians.\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
Posted by Kathleen Schilling on Tuesday, Nov, 15, 2016 4:08 PM (EDT):<\/div>\n
\nAs mentioned by Fr. Mitch Pacwa (Threshold of Hope) .. \u201cMurder by Government\u201d statistics are online for anyone to see. This link is to just the 20th Century numbers.
\nhttp:\/\/www.hawaii.edu\/powerkills\/20TH.HTM\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Even if we were to ignore the obvious crimes against humanity that atheistic communists have committed, atheism would be condemned simply by examining the devastation of the French Revolution. Angelo Stagnaro Several points: 1. This is a silly, if not… <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_sitemap_exclude":false,"_sitemap_priority":"","_sitemap_frequency":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1056],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1471","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-teksty-english"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1471","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1471"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1471\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1471"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1471"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beniuk.gr5.pl\/apologetyka2\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1471"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}